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Author Topic: Unexplained Change to School Happiness  (Read 1071 times)

Spinner

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Unexplained Change to School Happiness
« on: May 16, 2019, 08:22:35 am »

To all dev capables: There's an unexplained change to school Happiness going on
-  See  Mantis 1306
-  I've been trying to work where it's coming from, but (so far) to no avail.
-  I had thought it was something new in the internal build, until squark reported seeing it (in some modder's thread)

It's easy to reproduce: Just pass time in any event: You will see changes of ~ +0.22 and -0.01
-  Note: only happens by an event passing time.  Just pressing 'wait' doesn't trigger it.

Any help in narrowing down to cause appreciated.
-  Note: Reproducibility isn't an issue here.
-  So additional like "I can cause it doing X or Y" won't narrow it down any further.
-  Needs a broader view of rules on/off, subjects on/off, etc.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2019, 08:26:28 pm by Spinner »
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barteke22

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Re: Unexplained Change to School Happiness
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2019, 12:33:07 pm »

Just FYI, it's 1306 for me, not 1305. Also, in case others have the same problem: Ticket links never work the first time for me (no permissions), if you click on them again they do.

barteke22

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Re: Unexplained Change to School Happiness
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2019, 01:04:48 pm »

Can someone maybe share a save that's affected? Nothing's happening for me when using tanning oil outside of school hours, or on weekends (in a relatively fresh game).

Spinner

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Re: Unexplained Change to School Happiness
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2019, 08:37:30 pm »

Thanks for that.

Have fixed the link.  And yeah on the first time issue.  Might send zythen a PM...

On the core issue... if you're not seeing it may be that squark's issue was indeed specific to that mod.

Couple of things to note though:
-  Description above is more up to date that mantis ticket: Just need to pass time in any event.
-  So a simply button event that passes time will do.
-  As I first (and keep) seeing with tanning oil, I used that time, and I see the issue.

I can reproduce 100% of the time on day 1, not sure about later in game.
-  If you can't, that suggest the issue is with the current internal only.     
« Last Edit: May 31, 2019, 11:15:37 pm by Spinner »
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Spinner

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Re: Unexplained Change to School Happiness
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2019, 09:02:10 pm »

Further update: Yep definitely happening in the released game.
-  But you need to: 1) install the above 2) start a new game 3) just push that button until it starts.

I tried saving (so I could give you save), but after loading that, the bug stopped.  ???

Note: As I said, have seen this with tanning oil and I'm sure (at least pretty sure) I saw that after a reload.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2019, 09:11:53 pm by Spinner »
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Spinner

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Re: Unexplained Change to School Happiness
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2019, 09:32:06 pm »

Turns out I was wrong on one point (it's time sensitive, not event sensitive):

Updated mantis note:
Quote
Further testing reveals:

It's very easy to reproduce (at least approx. 50% of the time)
-  Start a new game, then just push the Wait 60 min button
-  You will see changes of +0.01 or -0.01 to school happiness

Intermittency Rate:
-  Seems to happen about half the starts
-  You can get a run of approx. 3 starts in a row where it does not happen
-  Likewise, you can get a run of approx. 3 starts in a row where it always happens
-  Seems it's likely to stop happening by Thursday or Friday of week 1 (haven't tested if it returns after that)

Triggering is Time Sensitive:
-  Will only trigger on Wait 60 mins
-  10 and 30 minute waits won't trigger it

Testing must be from a game start:
-  Saving, then loading seems to make it stop happening
-  Not sure if that's the case or if loading merely defers the issue for a while

General Notes
-  I have tested with the try phase of all Principal attached events clipped (to eliminate those as a cause)
-  Have tested with in different locations (eliminating location events as the cause)
« Last Edit: May 16, 2019, 10:43:11 pm by Spinner »
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barteke22

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Re: Unexplained Change to School Happiness
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2019, 01:30:23 am »

1. I started a new game and kept spamming Wait 60 (the regular button) until a game over (week 2 - no rep). Pretty much every hour I got a +0.01 to Happiness. Whether I used your button or just the regular wait.

Didn't touch management panel.

2. On next try I assigned History to everyone (since it lowers happiness). Neither your, nor the regular button showed any change to happiness outside of school hours. During school hours I got -0.01 to -0.02 Happiness every hour.

3. Next try. Assigned English to all. Every hour +0.01 outside school hours, +0.01 and +0.04 during school hours.


What does this mean? No idea. Could subjects have some sort of effect outside their hours?

Obviously I ignored the big midnight changes, and this only tells me about the student situation - dunno what's happening to the adults (if anything). It could be unrelated, but then why does History prevent changes outside school hours? Perhaps the overall Happiness effect from their subjects lingers on the students past the school hours?

Well, sorry if this tangent leads to nothing, since my testing was rather sporadic, as my time is very limited - busy days both today and tomorrow :/
« Last Edit: May 17, 2019, 01:44:49 am by barteke22 »
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DasBrain

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Re: Unexplained Change to School Happiness
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2019, 03:25:38 am »

I suspect the Menstrual Cycle/Menstral Cycle Status Effect.
Requires further testing, but I'll share it so other can test it too.

(Hypothesis: If the cycles are spread out evenly, then the effects should cancel in the overall happiness.
But if it is not evenly distributed among your students, then the effect might be noticeable by the changes of overall happiness.)

But if saving and loading somehow resolves that, then something else is going on.
Again: requires further testing.

Will try to reproduce the problem with changed status effects, so they won't affect happiness.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2019, 04:18:33 am by DasBrain »
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Spinner

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Re: Unexplained Change to School Happiness
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2019, 05:04:56 am »

LOL... glad I opened this thread.   Just needed a fresh pair of eyes.

Menstrual/Manstral cycle it is.
-  And you're right: Explains the intermittency and probability of yes/no from start (phasing of starting students)
-  Why the save/load thing happened to me don't know
-  Happened twice, but am now just putting that down to a furphy

The evidence is fairly solid:
-  I could reliably evoke it from game start at least 1 in 4, and (as mentioned) often multiple starts in a row
-  I clipped the code that adds Menstrual/Manstral cycles and nada (could not evoke in 10 starts)

Why it's only evident with hourly+ time passing I have no idea.
-  Can only assume that has to do with core code updates for status effects and school average...?
-  Perhaps shilo can shed some light on that...?

Either way... mystery solved.   :D

Thanks for your help guys.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2019, 05:19:20 am by Spinner »
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DasBrain

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Re: Unexplained Change to School Happiness
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2019, 05:26:00 am »

Why it's only evident with hourly+ time passing I have no idea.
-  Can only assume that has to do with core code updates for status effects and school average...?
-  Perhaps shilo can shed some light on that...?

I suspect that the change is too small to be shown. I think changes below +-0.01 are not shown, but still there. Not sure about the exact math (is is rounded? Or capped?)
You could try to use an event that adds 0.001 to a stat for all your students, pass a minute and do it again (in a loop, let's say 100 times?). If I'm right you should not see a stat change popping up, but the number should rise by 0.1.

Would also explain that.
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Spinner

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Re: Unexplained Change to School Happiness
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2019, 05:39:55 am »

Yeah... will wait for shilo to wade in on that.  Assuming he does, the answer will there and obvious in the code.

As an aside: I've personally avoided getting into that side of things, else it'll just lead to more time going into this damn game...  ??? :D
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barteke22

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Re: Unexplained Change to School Happiness
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2019, 01:25:29 pm »

From what I've read in the description in those effects, simply put:
Manstral: A sine wave over a 60 day period is used (then restarts):
- First 30 days Fertility and Arousal go up. Happiness goes down by 50% of Fertility change.
- Remaining 30 days it's the opposite.
- It should vary per person based on something (initial fertility? effect start-time?).

Menstrual is similar, but over 28 day-period and Happiness is 3 days out of sync (behind).

All in all, I don't want to think about how this is in practice (whether it works properly or not), but I imagine the stat-changes are applied constantly (every time time is passed) rather than on day-shift.

Like DasBrain has said, the reason why you only see it during 60+min waits is that they only become big enough to be notable then. And since the top panel is cached, it's like +- 2 out of sync with the actual numbers most of the time.


To test: If at the start of the game the Happiness change is negative, it should turn positive in 20-40 days.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2019, 01:27:36 pm by barteke22 »
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Spinner

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Re: Unexplained Change to School Happiness
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2019, 08:56:56 pm »

Yeah... I built the current menstrual and manstral cycle SEs.
So have a good handle on how they work, and why they fit the scenario.
Not sure why it didn't occur to me, other than just being a bit blinked.  ::)

The issue that it's confusing is in itself (as far as I know) newer than the SE's.
And, since most of the time, one would only see it during events, one would conclude it's events-based.

I have separate ticket open (1212) dealing with the more general subject of stat display timing.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2019, 09:52:44 pm by Spinner »
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