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Author Topic: Questions on the upcoming new Modding Framework  (Read 1765 times)

Umgah

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Questions on the upcoming new Modding Framework
« on: January 06, 2021, 04:14:04 pm »

Few questions about the upcoming Modding Framework.

First of all, I'm very excited about it and I this that it's a great thing that will make it much simple to install Mods and maintain them. Right now I use Mod Organizer 2 to separate Mods from each other and the main game. So I'm interested if the new framework have some nice features that already provided by Mod Organizer 2. So here are the questions.

1) Does the new Modding Framework to is able to show the list of all files that have conflicts between Mods and core files?
2) Does the new Modding Framework to is able to show the list of all Mods that contain the specific conflicting file?
3) Have you considered to publish minor updates as Mods for that new Framework?

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Shilo

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Re: Questions on the upcoming new Modding Framework
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2021, 06:29:01 pm »

Nope, there is currently no indicator of "conflicts". After all it's plausible that a particular mod overwrites files of another mod for the sake of making it compatible with changes from another mod.
It shouldn't be too difficult to let the framework provide such a list, though.

At the moment I am more concerned with getting a usable first version out and to later see what other features might be needed.
One concern in particular is how we handle the fact that a saved game may have been started with a different set of mods than what is currently available on the player's installation. For that, the save file will include a list of active mods and automatically enable only those when loading a saved file.
But it should still be possible to then go into the debug menu and change the configuration of active mods. I am also working on making other resource files (like clubs, school subjects, items, etc.) reloadable, similar to how it's already possible to reload events. There is of course the risk to break stuff because some of these resources can store internal progress within themselves (for example the available club levels or purchased upgrades) or require an initialization event at the start of the game to be properly used. But that's out of our hands.

As for upgrades: while it's thinkable to provide them in a format that can be easily used as a mod, they ultimately should still be added to the base game. They are official content and considered part of the base after all, and the base might not even work properly without using the files from those minor updates in case of code changes. And every active mod also adds a slight overhead to resource lookups, so it's not a good idea to waste performance that way when we can easily avoid that loss.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2021, 06:31:52 pm by Shilo »
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DasBrain

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Re: Questions on the upcoming new Modding Framework
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2021, 08:26:01 pm »

And every active mod also adds a slight overhead to resource lookups, so it's not a good idea to waste performance that way when we can easily avoid that loss.

This can be solved - at the small cost of storing a map of filename -> resolved filename in memory.

The bigger problem is when a mod changes / overrides core files - and then an update comes out that changes exactly those files.
So, a view on which files are "in conflict" is kind of needed. It would also make further improvements easier - as we can look at just the conflicts and figure out a way to provide hooks, so the conflict can be resolved without loosing any functionality.

For example, I consider adding global variables as "cheats" to hypno, immodesty check..., where Lexville in the past added a small piece of logic to determine if should succeed.
My hope is that Lexville could just set the the corresponding global variables to true - and doesn't have to modify the file itself.
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Umgah

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Re: Questions on the upcoming new Modding Framework
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2021, 03:52:59 pm »

4) How the Visual Event Editor will interact with mods? Is it going to work one mod at a time?
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Shilo

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Re: Questions on the upcoming new Modding Framework
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2021, 07:00:26 pm »

4) How the Visual Event Editor will interact with mods? Is it going to work one mod at a time?

It also uses your current mod configuration and has access to all the events and resources available to the active mods.
I'll probably make it so that is uses the mod that is furthest up in the priority hierarchy to determine the default folder locations when loading/saving files. If you need to access resources from other mods or the base game, you need to drill up and down the folder hierarchy, though.

Perhaps in the future, when the Asset Browser becomes more fleshed out, it can be used instead of a regular file dialog to select files to reference. Then it can display all the stuff from all active mods at once.
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Umgah

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Re: Questions on the upcoming new Modding Framework
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2021, 03:46:55 am »

5) How does the mod installation looks like? Does users have to unpack the mod into correct game folder?

MO2 has a feature that you can drag and drop an zip/rar/7z archive file to it's windows and MO2 will extract mod data from the archive to a correct place (however this works only for Syrim, not for HHS). It would be nice to have something like that (somewhere in very far future, probably in the another galaxy).
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Shilo

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Re: Questions on the upcoming new Modding Framework
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2021, 12:03:28 pm »

I've just finished implementing the feature to show which files are overridden and overriding other mod files, so here's a sneak peek screenshot as attachment.

It's a work-in-progress. I might also provide a view that explicitly lists everything that is overridden and everything that is overriding. And maybe also the stuff that does neither. But that depends on whether there is actually any use case for that.

As for how to install, the mods will need to be unzipped into the right place ("Mods" directory in the specific scenario), but that really is all there is to it. We will see whether mod authors will then just provide the mod folder and tell people to unzip it into that directory or whether they will package it as relative path from the base game (which would be slightly more comfortable but means the mod goes into a specific scenario by default).
« Last Edit: February 14, 2021, 12:11:55 pm by Shilo »
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PhantomBull

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Re: Questions on the upcoming new Modding Framework
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2021, 08:02:41 pm »

I don't really think there is any use case for files that aren't overriding files nor overriden by other files. In the end, the use case of the show file overrides is to check if there might be a conflict with other mods or with the core game.

I also understand that having an empty list in that screen would mean that there are no possible conflicts with other mods already added to the Mods directory.

We will see whether mod authors will then just provide the mod folder and tell people to unzip it into that directory or whether they will package it as relative path from the base game (which would be slightly more comfortable but means the mod goes into a specific scenario by default).
I prefer the former, that would make it easier having a mod compatible with the vanilla and the Lexville version of the game, and I suppose that if Lexville is integrated as a mod (or a set of mods) for the vanilla game it won't happen right away, so it would make the transition easier too in that case.
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Shilo

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Re: Questions on the upcoming new Modding Framework
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2021, 08:51:26 pm »

If there are no conflicts at all, I display something like "No file conflicts detected" as first node, to make it more clear to the user.
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Umgah

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Re: Questions on the upcoming new Modding Framework
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2021, 03:33:43 pm »

I've just finished implementing the feature to show which files are overridden and overriding other mod files, so here's a sneak peek screenshot as attachment.
Thank you!
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