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Author Topic: Tagging Tool 2.8 + TagSet Extended  (Read 726656 times)

Chris12

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Re: Tagging Tool 2.8 + TagSet Extended
« Reply #360 on: March 07, 2021, 09:03:28 pm »

Nemojason, I'm pretty sure the problem is that the filepath is too long. Filepath+Filename are limited to 250 characters on Windows. "C:\hhsd\projet girl brothel king\Picture_namer_for_BK-2.7-pc\Picture_namer_for_BK-2.7-pc\" is using up almost 100. If you switch to only one directory called "Picture_namer_for_BK-2.7-pc", the filename should fit.
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Chris12

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Re: Tagging Tool 2.8 + TagSet Extended
« Reply #361 on: March 07, 2021, 09:08:17 pm »

Quote from: _neronero
Let's come at this from another angle; the Girl Pack's rating. What Goldo is looking for is a way to communicate in the tagging tool that bisexual is an essential main tag and lesbian is more of an optional tag.

I don't really get it. There's a clear distinction between a bisexual image and a lesbian image - the presence of a male. Whether we make "lesbian" main or optional won't change the images you are tagging.

To be honest, I feel this is another discussion for discussion's sake. Lesbian already IS one of the most prominent tags around, beating waitress, geisha, monster and libido in my girls directory in raw numbers. Why? Because there's a fuckton of lesbian images out there. Bisexual is also one of the most prominent tags around, especially if you consider that "bis" and "bisexual" is the same tag. This is absolutely no problem in reality.

Also, Goldo already said that "lesbian" will count towards "bisexual" for the rating, and I will mirror that. That is the one point I absolutely refuse to discuss. The rating is Goldo's domain, I will only ever mimic it in the Tagging Tool. If you see any problems with the rating, you need to discuss this with Goldo.



Regarding Leortha's question, I think you missed the point. There will be female customers. They will want service/sex/anal/fetish with your girls, depending on which sexacts you activated. Because of this, Leortha and I assume that tagging service..fetish for lesbian images will be beneficial. There's actually lots of girlpacks already tagged like that, because it's not expressly forbidden, either.

However, just what counts as which sexact is somewhat undefined for female customers. There's a gray area between service and sex. Taking the tag definitions literally, "lesbian sex" is kinda impossible right now, because "sex" requires the presence of a male sexual organ, while "lesbian" requires the absence of any males. I assume most people will count two lesbians fucking with a strap-on or a double-headed dildo as "sex", though.

The question is where you draw the line. I agree with Jman that Dildos are probably gonna be the biggest problematic area. On the other hand, maybe we can leave that decision to the packmaker's discretion? Some girlpacks might have no strap-on images available, for instance.
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nemojason

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Re: Tagging Tool 2.8 + TagSet Extended
« Reply #362 on: March 07, 2021, 10:48:25 pm »

Nemojason, I'm pretty sure the problem is that the filepath is too long. Filepath+Filename are limited to 250 characters on Windows. "C:\hhsd\projet girl brothel king\Picture_namer_for_BK-2.7-pc\Picture_namer_for_BK-2.7-pc\" is using up almost 100. If you switch to only one directory called "Picture_namer_for_BK-2.7-pc", the filename should fit.
Ah ok, good to know... thanks for u help
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_neronero

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Re: Tagging Tool 2.8 + TagSet Extended
« Reply #363 on: March 07, 2021, 10:58:51 pm »

Quote from: _neronero
Let's come at this from another angle; the Girl Pack's rating. What Goldo is looking for is a way to communicate in the tagging tool that bisexual is an essential main tag and lesbian is more of an optional tag.
I don't really get it. There's a clear distinction between a bisexual image and a lesbian image - the presence of a male. Whether we make "lesbian" main or optional won't change the images you are tagging.
Nono, I'm not arguing for any changes there. I'm trying put Goldo's views in different words: "lesbian" being an inferior tag compared to "bisexual", which ought to somehow be signaled to the tagger within the tagging tool.

Lesbian already IS one of the most prominent tags around, beating waitress, geisha, monster and libido in my girls directory in raw numbers. Why? Because there's a fuckton of lesbian images out there.
I'm currently in the process of reviewing all 1000+ girl packs in the spreadsheet. Not very thorough reviews obviously, it largely consists of pumping them through the game + tagging tool and looking at the stats screens, and taking a glance in the folder.
Combining lesbian with sex acts is quite rare from what I've seen so far. A more common approach is "lesbian finger.jpg", "lesbian strap-on.jpg", "lesbian dildo.jpg", etc. Cunnilingus avant la lettre & scissoring is usually filed under "lesbian service" or "lesbian sex", both of those boxes contain a pretty wide and unpredictable range of sex acts. "lesbian.jpg" and "bisexual lesbian.jpg" are also relatively common.

Edit: I'm doing these reviews tagger-by-tagger and only halfway through at the moment, so maybe I'm still missing some different approaches. Currently grinding through packs of the tagging powerhouse that is Leortha ;D I would expect any functionality that's added to work with his packs as a baseline, which is as described above. I'm also noting down which packs have at least one "beach" image in them.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2021, 11:13:14 pm by _neronero »
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Chris12

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Re: Tagging Tool 2.8 + TagSet Extended
« Reply #364 on: March 08, 2021, 04:40:21 am »

I can only repeat myself. I see zero need to "defend" the bisexual tag against lesbian. Both tags are working very fine, taking top spots in the statistics. To me, the fact that lesbian is also up there in the top ranks is another hint that it ought to be a main tag.

Keep in mind that I want to keep the Tagging Tool open for mods and other games. Suppose someone wrote a Mod called "LesbianKing" and they need lesbian images for that. Basically, Goldo is already doing something like that. As far as I understood it, his plan is to pull some sexact image and then check if it is lesbian or not. Obviously, this can ONLY work if there are sexact images tagged with lesbian. But because Leortha has been so strict with his lesbian images, his old girlpacks will probably not work well with the new feature.

This is what I have been preaching since I started working on the tagging tool. If you focus only on what's there right now, you severly hamper the options Goldo and others have going forward. I reject using the current version of BK as the only baseline for the Tagging Tool. It's an important one, definitely, but with just a few little changes to the tagging, the range of options increases quite a bit.

We should at least be able to tag the most common sexy images out there, without having to throw a large portion of them away, or tagging them in a way making it impossible to find them consistently.


Quote from: _neronero
Combining lesbian with sex acts is quite rare from what I've seen so far. A more common approach is "lesbian finger.jpg", "lesbian strap-on.jpg", "lesbian dildo.jpg", etc.

Your algorithm for counting tags must be broken. Or are you just using your gut feeling? Anyway, here's the tag distribution for lesbian images in my girls folder:
     lesbian 2254
         bis 1505
    bisexual  485
     service  471
         sex  447
         toy  349
      fondle  336
        kiss  314
       naked  309
      finger  282
      fetish  280
     strapon  272


If you ignore "bis" and "bisexual" (which were mandatory for a longest time), "sex" and "service" convincingly take the two top spots. I'd be careful using whatever you're basing your reviews on, your numbers are probably wrong. Dildo is not even in the top 10.

Or maybe you're using a very skewed data basis? You said you're currently reviewing Leortha, and he has already said that he has been tagging lesbian images differently. However, if you a priori select your sample to match the point you're trying to make, it's a kinda unfair use of statistics. ;)


Anyway, I've also taken a look at just how existing lesbian images use "service" and "sex", and also find that the range of images is relatively large. In my eyes, this means we should take Leortha seriously and provide at least a rough definition of where the border between "lesbian service" and "lesbian sex" is. I assume there will continue to be gray areas, but we can define at least what the clear-cut cases are.

About the examples I used to test the waters, what is your opinion? Which cases would you put under "lesbian sex"?

Personally, I have been using the sex tag relatively strictly with lesbian images. There's 91 "service" images among my lesbian images, but only 29 "sex". Basically, only images with penetration with strapons, futa and double-headed dildos get a sex tag. You can download a compressed version here:
https://mega.nz/file/7YpXRYba#GmJSuKxc1eFMMEDPaobyF_2n2HR0WO6jtuDeO_NT50A (2 MB)

I think e.g. fingering is more consistent under "service", fisting more consistent under "fetish". Even "normal" dildos are "only" service if pushed in by hand. But I don't want to just declare my way as the standard in this case. Does this make sense? Keep in mind that Goldo will have an easier time writing consistent texts to go with the female customers, if we provide him with constistent images.

The one edge case I'm undecided about is tribadism, when the girls rub their pussies against each other. Jman made a convincing case for filing it under service. Is anyone opposed?
« Last Edit: March 08, 2021, 04:53:56 am by Chris12 »
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_neronero

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Re: Tagging Tool 2.8 + TagSet Extended
« Reply #365 on: March 08, 2021, 12:40:12 pm »

You don't have to convince me, I'm completely on board with giving lesbian such attention to detail within the extended tags.
I'm just saying Goldo has quite clearly stated his intentions for the Core tagset and BK functionality, where lesbian will be lower in the pecking order. I think for now it's best to wait and see what Goldo comes up with to determine what instructions are appropriate for the core tagset.

For tribadism I would introduce an extended tag for it. You can call it service instead of sex if you wish, but I do expect that the "service" tag will contain 80% of the content at some point. Dildo's and toys were typically reserved for fetishism, but in a lesbian context they're more akin to service. Anal strap-on content is very niche. So you're just left with a very bloated service picture pool with a very wide array of acts.

Regarding the tag numbers, I think you're misrepresenting them. Let's compare like-for-like:

lesbian + service3200 (avg of 2.5 per girl pack)
lesbian + (and/or for service subtags: kiss, fondle, grope, finger, masturbate, cunnilingus, handjob, titjob, oral, deep, sixty-nine)5500 (4.3/pack)

That is excluding subtags for lots of other cases we might consider service, such as toy usage.

I also think that you and I have a big bias towards well-tagged packs. That's why I wanted to send the warning out there to keep all kinds of packs/users in mind.
It's a tough pill to swallow, but most packs out there barely even support bisexual and group content properly. That's why I'm half expecting Goldo to build functionality that is relatively general-purpose (in terms of only requiring the lesbian tag and not much else) It's either that or building functionality with barely any support, which makes older packs somewhat handicapped/obsolete. (EG: Only ~4% of packs supports the Beach event.)

service -lesbian -bis -group48100 (37.3/pack)
service bis8600 (6.7/pack)
service group8800 (6.8/pack)
« Last Edit: March 08, 2021, 09:36:03 pm by _neronero, Reason: updated numbers with a bigger sample size »
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Jman

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Re: Tagging Tool 2.8 + TagSet Extended
« Reply #366 on: March 08, 2021, 01:42:20 pm »

For tribadism I would introduce an extended tag for it.
The trouble is not only or even mostly with tagging, but rather how the game will approach female customers and sex acts. Perhaps just leaving out primary sex act tags altogether would suffice. Then every game that uses these packs can decide for itself what 'tribadism' qualifies as, and pack makers don't have to engage in mental gymnastics while tagging.

You can call it service instead of sex if you wish, but I do expect that the "service" tag will contain 80% of the content at some point.
That's a good point, although from a non-pack maker POV I'm seeing a lot of strapon/dildo action and far less tribadism and similar. Maybe it's different for popular characters.

Dildo's and toys were typically reserved for fetishism, but in a lesbian context they're more akin to service.
They are? I always figured dildos were somewhere between service and sex/anal, and fetish would require something unusual on top of that (big spikes, horse dildos, magic, bondage, etc). Lesbian dildos have the problem that they're closer to 'sex' than usual, but I'm not sure whether there's a sufficient amount of non-dildo, non-strapon, non-futa lesbian content, Maybe I'm wrong.

Anal strap-on content is very niche.
That's unfortunately quite true. We have the 'doggy' pictures to compensate, but that's not very much.

That's why I'm half expecting Goldo to build functionality that is relatively general-purpose (in terms of only requiring the lesbian tag and not much else)
I can see him doing a variant of the 'farm tag' treatment for female customers and 'lesbian'. I didn't propose putting lesbians next to the minions only to make a joke.
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Leortha

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Re: Tagging Tool 2.8 + TagSet Extended
« Reply #367 on: March 08, 2021, 03:05:13 pm »

That's a good point, although from a non-pack maker POV I'm seeing a lot of strapon/dildo action and far less tribadism and similar. Maybe it's different for popular characters.

I'll note that, for me, currently, tribidism pics tend to go straight to trash.  Not because I do not like them, but because they currently have no place in the game and no place in the tags.  About the only way I could tag them currently is just Lesbian.jpg.  The only place in the game where they would be useful is the very rare event of the female customer getting onstage with the girl.  So all 200+ packs of mine lack such images.

_neronero

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Re: Tagging Tool 2.8 + TagSet Extended
« Reply #368 on: March 08, 2021, 05:17:23 pm »

What do you guys think of the following disambiguation for lesbian acts? I think adding toy as a main tag might restore some balance between the different categories (sex/anal removed because you kinda need a penis)

Lesbian
  • Naked
    • Kiss, Fondle, Grope, ...
  • Service
    • Finger, Masturbate, Cunnilingus, Tribadism...
  • Toy
    • Dildo, Vibrator, Beads, Plug, Strap-on...
    • Possibly use Sex/Anal here to note which hole is being drilled?
  • Fetish
    • Bondage, Gag, Spanking, Rimming, Fisting, Lactation, Watersports, Enema, Blindfold, Collar, ...

Chris12

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Re: Tagging Tool 2.8 + TagSet Extended
« Reply #369 on: March 09, 2021, 08:01:19 am »

I think the discussion about lesbian main/optional is going nowhere. I'm going to make a decision. I'm always happy to hear a divergent opinion. But I don't want to - and honestly, I cannot - discuss for days on end when ultimately it's just about moving one button. Things only work here if Goldo has a strong opinion. But in the cases Goldo doesn't really care either, we're always discussing things to death.

Lesbian will be a main tag with the next release of the tagging tool. No definitions will be updated, so everything else stays unchanged. It's really just moving a button from the right to the left, as far as I'm concerned. I'll accept being overriden by Goldo at any point.

______________________


Regarding dildos (in vanilla images), I'm also usually tagging them as service as long as the image is tame. However, there's quite a lot of fetish/bondage pictures with dildos, so those get tagged fetish instead. It's probably quite evenly distributed in my girlpacks. Some images probably even are "naked dildo" when it seems like the girl is completely on her own. (not looking into the camera, etc.)
Keep in mind that in lesbian images, dildo can also mean a double-ended dildo. This would better fit "sex"/"anal" in my opinion.


I'm not really sure what establishing "toy" as a maintag is supposed to accomplish. It's an umbrella, similar to "cosplay" or "cumshot". You'd have to move those too, to be consistent. I guess it is something you can discuss, but I'm really not convinced. If this is only to suppport lesbian better, I feel it's weird you want "lesbian" to remain an optional tag, but want to make "toy" a main tag. I think it would also really intensify the problems with machine. Right now, you can at least see that "toy" is the umbrella for all the toy tags. If the tag is off to the left-hand side, it's not gonna be obvious for someone new to tagging BK.

A "dildo" image could be all of naked/service/sex/anal/fetish depending on what is happening in the image. I think the toy tags are all perfect examples for optional tags, and so is the toy tag itself.


I kinda like the idea about tribadism, but I wonder if there are enough images to support it. I tried looking for those images, and feel like I found more tribadism among "lesbian sex" than "lesbian service". I cannot really tell for certain, though, there's many examples on both sides. You can definitely make a case for either way here.

Considering that so much lesbian content is ending up in the "service" bin already, I lean more towards "sex".


Finally, let's keep in mind that optional tags do not define main tags. Your list is a little misleading, as it shows each optional tag under exactly one main tag. E.g. Dildo can be part of pretty much any main tag, no matter what is going on. Doesn't matter if the image is lesbian or not. It's probably not what you meant to express, I just wanted to point it out.

I feel your use of naked is off, though. A naked image usually means no one else being present. E.g. "naked masturbate" kinda implies no customers (with a customer, it woudl be service). But lesbian implies a customer. "Kiss", "fondle", "grope" also strongly implies a customer, especially in the lesbian context (since the main character is male). I do not see BK making use of "lesbian naked" images anywhere either, except maybe for naked training with a gender-swapped main character.

Other than that, I feel like your list reflects what is going to happen in the standard cases. With maybe the exception of tribadism, I think most lesbian images will stay in the service/fetish domain, as long as no toy is involved.

With toys, (which includes strap-on), I think the gate to sex and anal opens. You're probably looking at the gate from the wrong side, though. I'd use sex/anal instead of toy as a main-tag, and put strap-on and dildo as possible optional tags there. My POV is probably more conventional, since it does not mean upgrading "toy" to a main tag, and reducing "sex" and "anal" to optional tags.


Lesbian
  • Service
    • Dildo, Finger, Masturbate, Cunnilingus, Kiss, Fondle, Grope, Tribadism...
  • Sex
    • Dildo, Strap-on, Tribadism...
  • Anal
    • Dildo, Strap-on, Beads, Plug, ...
  • Fetish
    • Bondage, Gag, Spanking, Rimming, Fisting, Lactation, Watersports, Enema, Blindfold, Collar, ...

Note: This list shows standard cases. Doesn't mean that finger cannot be part of a sex image. (E.g. being fingered during strap-on sex)

Dildo is kind of a special case, because it can mean a double-ended dildo in the lesbian context (-> sex/anal), but also a normal one. (-> service)
« Last Edit: March 09, 2021, 08:25:04 am by Chris12 »
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_neronero

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Re: Tagging Tool 2.8 + TagSet Extended
« Reply #370 on: March 09, 2021, 08:22:42 am »

I feel it's weird you want "lesbian" to remain an optional tag
Once again... I never said I did! For the Extended tags I'm 100% on board with your way of thinking, we are completely sympatico (apart from expecting that sex and anal will be underpopulated categories, but that's a minor quibble)

All I keep trying to say is: Goldo has quite clearly stated his wishes, let's try to brainstorm and find a nice solution along those lines for the Core tagset. You're not giving an inch and putting him in an awkward spot by demanding an ultimatum before you're willing to think with him or listen to him. And in a sense that's your right as the tagging tool's creator... But still, it doesn't sit right with me.

Chris12

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Re: Tagging Tool 2.8 + TagSet Extended
« Reply #371 on: March 09, 2021, 08:38:18 am »

Oh, I misunderstood you then. So you want to wait for Goldo's final OK, if I take it right?

Yeah, I want to nudge the tagger, but I don't support making it an official child-tag of bisexual in the tagging tool (if only because adding 'bisexual lesbian' to every filename will prove tedious when 'lesbian' would suffice). So I think it belongs lower in the tag hierarchy (at least in the context of BK, the game), without needing to be made a child tag in the tagging tool.

Anyway, the tagging tool is Chris12's now it's his to do with as he likes. :)

Goldo has already stated that he does not have a strong opinion about this. He's also said that it does not need to be made a child tag in the tagging tool. He hasn't posted on this thread for five days, while answering others, probably because he feels he's got more important things to do than discussing the placement of a button in the tagging tool.

I think his second statement quite clearly shows he is fine with me making final decisions. On the contrary, despite Goldo offering me full rights here, I'm still saying I'll respect his opinion over others and in ultimate cases, even over my own.


I recommend we all take a step back and calm down a little. We've discussed the placement of that button for five days now. Honestly, this has gone on beyond being reasonable.


Regarding lesbian + sexact, I'm hoping for a continued constructive discussion. :) Maybe Leortha or Jman can offer input on those standard categorization lists.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2021, 08:42:54 am by Chris12 »
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Jman

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Re: Tagging Tool 2.8 + TagSet Extended
« Reply #372 on: March 09, 2021, 08:49:54 am »

I think the discussion about lesbian main/optional is going nowhere.

Lesbian will be a main tag with the next release of the tagging tool.
I'm generally in favour of this because it makes using the tool easier. But the confusion here is that 'lesbian' has no real 'skill' counterpart in the game, unlike the other main tags. Even minions have a 'monster preference'.

I guess we'll have to wait and see how Goldo is going to do female customers.

I'm not really sure what establishing "toy" as a maintag is supposed to accomplish.
I think it's more about getting a 'toy' skill and making the tag useful for that. Currently, the 'toy' tag is basically there just for backup.

As far as I can tell, the reason to do that is because 'anal lesbian' pictures are rare, and tribadism and similar pictures probably warrant their own category. Also, pretty much all 'lesbian sex' apart from tribadism is going to involve toys.

Maybe not the best idea, since we don't know Goldo's plans yet. I made a post in the gameplay thread proposing the use of 'bisexual' as a main sex act for tribadism-type situations, and using something akin to _neronero's 'toy' for toy users. Like this:

Lesbian sex acts
  • Service
    • Kissing, groping, cunnilingus, masturbation, teasing with dildos, fingering, etc.
  • Bisexual
    • Tribadism, full-body contact, something else?
  • Sex/Anal
    • Toys in the hole!
  • Fetish
    • As usual.
Edit: But one thing that's been missing in this discussion is futa content. Like it or not, but a sizeable amount of 'lesbian' content features dickgirls doing their thing, possibly even several dickgirls. Fortunately, the tag already exists. But it's ambiguous about who exactly has the dick, the girl or her partner(s), which is sorta crucial. Futas visiting the brothel is fine, the slavegirl spontaneously sprouting a boner is not.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2021, 10:50:23 am by Jman »
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_neronero

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Re: Tagging Tool 2.8 + TagSet Extended
« Reply #373 on: March 09, 2021, 06:23:11 pm »

tagcountBK version(*)alternatives
profile
portrait
market
waitress
dancer
masseuse
geisha
advertise
rest
naked
service
sex
anal
fetish
bisexual
group
big
beast
machine
monster
ceremony
date*
party
happy
neutral
sad
embar
angry
refuse
hurt
cosplay
maid
bunny
swim
kimono
apron
china
dress
hooker
nun
miko
casual
student
teacher
nurse
santa
bride
catgirl
strip
sing
fight
study
libido
sensitivity
obedience
constitution
public
beach
nature
town
toy
dildo
vibrator
beads
plug
strap-on
futanari
lesbian
dirty
wet
dom
sub
kiss
fondle
grope
finger
masturbate
cunnilingus
tempt
handjob
titjob
footjob
oral
deep
sixty-nine
doggy
cowgirl
piledriver
spooning
double
bondage
gag
spanking
rimming
fisting
lactation
watersports
enema
blindfold
collar
cumshot
on-body
on-face
in-hair
in-mouth
inside
creampie
bukkake
cum-shower
orgasm
denied
squirt
friend
virgin
pregnant
lingerie
panties
tentacles
uncen
sprite
freq_highest
freq_high
freq_low
freq_lowest
gallery
_TRASH
_UNTAGGED
44400
13000
200
13400
24100
15900
14800
350
20100
59900
58400
69100
18900
22600
10500
20400
7300
5100
2300
7300
60
640
170
11300
4100
4600
850
400
340
270
17700
3200
1200
8900
3600
180
50
370
60
10
190
250
610
40
40
200
80
340
9200
1400
3200
70
11500
4900
4300
5100
9900
770
400
390
10700
5300
3100
1400
2000
1900
70
11200
3900
6800
5100
10800
5100
7600
5500
4300
5700
250
550
8800
6400
2100
21400
3500
1600
13200
16000
6300
2800
3500
12200
4100
1000
970
650
1800
1100
550
70
200
36400
6400
5800
2600
4700
11700
11000
1800
780
11000
1700
3000
310
30
70
310
830
140
580
200
0
20
90
0
<10
440
7800
0.15
0.15
0.2
0.15
0.15
0.15
0.15
0.2
0.15
0.15
0.15
0.15
0.15
0.15
0.15
0.15
0.15
0.15
0.15
0.15



0.15
0.15
0.15


0.2
0.2
0.15
0.15
0.15
0.15
0.15













0.15
0.15
0.15

0.15
0.15
0.15
0.15
0.15
0.2
0.2
0.2
0.15
0.15
0.15
0.15
0.15
0.15

0.15
0.15
0.15
0.15
0.15
0.15
0.15
0.15
0.15
0.15
0.2

0.15
0.15
0.15
0.15
0.15
0.15
0.15
0.15
0.15
0.15
0.15
0.15
0.15
0.15
0.15
0.15
0.15
0.15
0.15


0.15
0.15
0.15
0.15
0.15
0.15
0.15
0.15
0.15
0.15
0.15
0.15

0.2






0.2
0.2
0.2
0.2
0.15
card


wait
danc
mass
etiquette
beauty

nude

fuck

bdsm
bis

stallion
best

tent










roleplay



















battle

ecchi


run





dild
vibr
bead

strap

les

oil

humiliat

fondl
grop

mast


hand
titj
foot
blowjob
irru
sixty

cowg
pile
spoon



spank
rim
fist
lact
watersp



cum
cob
cof
cih
cim
cin
cream
buk
cum shower











xq
hq
lq
0


270
<10
20
<10
<10

200

20

20
11000

0
<10

0










600



















0

<10


210





<10
<10
0

<10

400

<10

0

0
<10

2600


<10
<10
<10
<10
120
<10

<10
<10
970



540
480
280
<10
760



100
2100
2300
900
1400
1600
<10
930
2100











<10
180
60
quest





date*
model



xxx

hardcore
















role



















combat




sports















insults


groping




penis worship
ttj
fj
bj
irrumatio
69**








Ass-to-mouth***







body
cif
coh
mouth***
0





240
50



0

<10
















<10



















<10




<10















310


1100




730
0
0
0
100
150








180







0
<10
0
0
shop















































































tits


dt


















face
hair
swallow
0















































































<10


0


















<10
<10
1200
titty
<10

Dataset: Approx. 312000 images gathered from all accessible Mega links in the girl pack spreadsheet.

(*) Inclusion in BK code. May not equal Goldo's endorsement and/or inclusion in the Core tagset.
* Date total tag count is ~640, but this includes 240 tags from "legacy" packs pre-2017. The definition of those pics as far as I can tell seems to be "sex for pleasure"
** When used as a tag, not as an image number.
*** As far as I can tell "Ass-to-mouth" is currently interpreted by the game as "cum in mouth".


Edit: just noticed "titty" flew up. It's supposed to be an alternative for titjobs
« Last Edit: March 09, 2021, 06:26:28 pm by _neronero, Reason: flying titty »
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Goldo

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Re: Tagging Tool 2.8 + TagSet Extended
« Reply #374 on: March 09, 2021, 06:26:54 pm »

Also, keeping lesbian at a lower level than bisexual would be better to convey that it is a child tag (none of the other sex acts has a parent tag).

Maybe this sentence sums up the problem in one sentence. Is lesbian a child tag of bisexual? Because I think it was, but then we changed that at the fundamental level. We even recommend to not set both tags at the same time.

I'm not sure it was necessary to necro that comment since I already answered you:
Quote from: Goldo
Yeah, I want to nudge the tagger, but I don't support making it an official child-tag of bisexual in the tagging tool (if only because adding 'bisexual lesbian' to every filename will prove tedious when 'lesbian' would suffice).

But anyway, here is a hopefully clearer summary for everyone:
  • It is mechanically necessary to add the 'bisexual' parent tag to 'lesbian' pictures within BK, so the game will do that on its own (as of next patch). i.e., Every lesbian picture is also assumed to be fit for bisexual acts (outside of events where 'lesbian' is specifically excluded).

  • There is no need to change tag definitions. It's also useless to tag pictures with both the 'bisexual' and 'lesbian' tags: this does nothing as 'lesbian' pictures are already assumed by the game to be also fit for 'bisexual'.

  • However, not all 'bisexual' pics are considered 'lesbian' by the game: this does not work both ways!

  • None of this means that 'lesbian' has to be a child tag of anything in the tagging tool. It should remain a separate button with no specific link to bisexual. As mentioned, my issue with placing it amidst the sex acts is that people will mistake it for a main sex tag (which it is not), but that is a minor concern, since there are already other non-sex act main tags on the left-hand side, and lesbian could be one of them.

More broadly, I think the general direction is for the tagging tool to group tags in a way that is different from how the game handles it. So lesbian could fit anywhere, but other tags could probably benefit from relocation as well. Some thinking could be put into grouping the buttons differently to better fit taggers' practices (off the top of my head, soft tags could be separate from sexual tags, for instance).



Also, I think Leortha raises an important point about lesbian + the sexact tags.

[...]

"sex" is probably the case that really needs some kind of decision. Is it lesbian sex if
  • Two women are rubbing their pussies against each other. (Probably yes?)
  • One woman penetrates the other with a strap-on. (Probably yes?)
  • One woman is sticking a dildo into the other. (Maybe? But maybe 'lesbian service toy dildo'?)
  • One woman fingers the other. (Probably no, but 'lesbian service finger'?)
  • One woman is fisting the other. (Probably no, but 'lesbian fetish fisting'?)

I would avoid creating different standards for lesbian sex practices that have a heterosexual equivalent, so I'd leave 'dildo', 'fingering', 'fisting', ... in the category they belong to (either service or fetish).

I'd count specific lesbian acts such as rubbing each other's pussy/scissoring, two-way dildos (do these have a name?) and strap-on action as 'sex', without narrowing the definition too much as lesbian pictures are rare enough in the first place. And anything that goes through the butthole would count as 'anal', beggars can't be choosers.

The sex act definitions will need to change in order to account for lesbian alternatives (which will be a PITA for readability, but oh well).
« Last Edit: March 09, 2021, 06:41:37 pm by Goldo »
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