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Author Topic: Tagging tool  (Read 116417 times)

Leortha

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Re: Tagging tool
« Reply #210 on: May 12, 2020, 02:48:18 pm »

Bisexual is for FFM.  Lesbian is for FF.  The problem is that there are, plot-wise, not a lot of places in the game where FF appropriately occurs.  So the Lesbian tag isn't that useful.  I've tried before to come up with situations that could be worked in to make FF more common.  There are so many great lesbian R34 pics out there.  In the end, for now, I mostly use them for the training tags if such are appropriate to the pic.

And no, you do not need a sex tag for training.
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Gleansome

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Re: Tagging tool
« Reply #211 on: May 12, 2020, 03:40:27 pm »

Great, thanks.
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Goldo

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Re: Tagging tool
« Reply #212 on: May 13, 2020, 11:44:33 am »

And no, you do not need a sex tag for training.

Let me give a little more information about how things work as of 0.2 (there have been some changes in the past).

First, there are two kinds of training:
- normal training, where no fixation is picked
- advanced training, where a fixation is picked

Normal training is easy. I will look for the trained act tag (such as 'naked', or 'service'), excluding bisexual and group pictures when appropriate and farm pictures (except 'big'). If no such tag is found, it will display a naked picture, or a 'rest' or 'profile' picture if all else fails.

Advanced training is trickier. Consider the following:
- 'spanking' is a fixation that can be trained during either Anal or Fetish advanced training
- Some girl packs will have enough picture variety to include 'anal spanking' and 'fetish spanking' pictures. In that case, we want to prioritize the proper sex act if we can.
- Some girl packs will include generic 'spanking' pictures

Many fixations are like this. Others are even trickier: a 'doggy style' picture, for instance, depending on the camera angle, could be used for both Sex and Anal sex acts, or for only one of them.

The way the game works is that during advanced training, it chooses randomly from two sets of pictures:
- One set searches for both the requested sex act AND the fixation tag, so for instance 'anal spanking'
- The other set searches for the requested fixation tag only ('spanking') AND NOT other sex acts (excluding 'fetish spanking' pictures, for instance)

Now, this behavior is certainly convoluted, but before you rush to come up with a different mechanic, you need to understand how this came about.
Some girlpacks will have pictures with both sex act tags and fixation tags (like 'anal spanking' and 'fetish spanking'). Others will only have the fixation tag ('spanking'). Some will have both.

If only one of the methods above is used, it would result in the following behavior:
- Using only the first method, only pictures with sex acts will be displayed unless none is available. So if you have a 'service oral' picture next to a 'oral' picture, the latter will never be displayed during service. Which was counter-intuitive, and a problem for girlpack makers that use both tagging styles.
- Using only the second method, tagging two sex acts next to a fixation tag (like 'sex anal doggy') would result in those pictures never showing during either anal or sex acts (because of the 'AND NOT' clause).

Of course, you could say, why not be lazy and use only the fixation tag, regardless of any sex act? Well, the answer is that a/ this would throw away the efforts of makers who tagged sex acts carefully and b/ it would lead to immersion-breaking pictures popping (such as anal fisting showing up instead of vaginal fisting, or group pictures showing up inappropriately...). Regardless, this is what the game defaults to if the two methods highlighted above fail anyway.

I am open to find a better way, but please consider the arguments above fully before giving your answer.
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asmox

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Re: Tagging tool
« Reply #213 on: May 15, 2020, 05:43:13 am »


Let me give a little more information about how things work as of 0.2 (there have been some changes in the past).

First, there are two kinds of training:
- normal training, where no fixation is picked
- advanced training, where a fixation is picked

Normal training is easy. I will look for the trained act tag (such as 'naked', or 'service'), excluding bisexual and group pictures when appropriate and farm pictures (except 'big'). If no such tag is found, it will display a naked picture, or a 'rest' or 'profile' picture if all else fails.

Advanced training is trickier. Consider the following:
- 'spanking' is a fixation that can be trained during either Anal or Fetish advanced training
- Some girl packs will have enough picture variety to include 'anal spanking' and 'fetish spanking' pictures. In that case, we want to prioritize the proper sex act if we can.
- Some girl packs will include generic 'spanking' pictures

Many fixations are like this. Others are even trickier: a 'doggy style' picture, for instance, depending on the camera angle, could be used for both Sex and Anal sex acts, or for only one of them.

The way the game works is that during advanced training, it chooses randomly from two sets of pictures:
- One set searches for both the requested sex act AND the fixation tag, so for instance 'anal spanking'
- The other set searches for the requested fixation tag only ('spanking') AND NOT other sex acts (excluding 'fetish spanking' pictures, for instance)

Now, this behavior is certainly convoluted, but before you rush to come up with a different mechanic, you need to understand how this came about.
Some girlpacks will have pictures with both sex act tags and fixation tags (like 'anal spanking' and 'fetish spanking'). Others will only have the fixation tag ('spanking'). Some will have both.

If only one of the methods above is used, it would result in the following behavior:
- Using only the first method, only pictures with sex acts will be displayed unless none is available. So if you have a 'service oral' picture next to a 'oral' picture, the latter will never be displayed during service. Which was counter-intuitive, and a problem for girlpack makers that use both tagging styles.
- Using only the second method, tagging two sex acts next to a fixation tag (like 'sex anal doggy') would result in those pictures never showing during either anal or sex acts (because of the 'AND NOT' clause).

Of course, you could say, why not be lazy and use only the fixation tag, regardless of any sex act? Well, the answer is that a/ this would throw away the efforts of makers who tagged sex acts carefully and b/ it would lead to immersion-breaking pictures popping (such as anal fisting showing up instead of vaginal fisting, or group pictures showing up inappropriately...). Regardless, this is what the game defaults to if the two methods highlighted above fail anyway.

I am open to find a better way, but please consider the arguments above fully before giving your answer.

I personally appreciate this approach.

That's probably my biggest issue with Bonanza - the tag matching in certain areas appears to be so strict that if you do not have images with the exact combination of tags the game is looking for, the image either falls through to a pre-defined default or, if you've removed the associated default in an attempt to get the game to use an alternative image from your pack, the game simply displays no image at all.

This type of uber strict design has its merits when used with painstakingly crafted girl packs which have tag combinations for all conceivable scenarios. However, as soon as you want to be somewhat lenient, for instance - a standard profile instead of a happy profile, a normal rest instead of a libido rest, a generic cumshot instead of an act-specific cumshot, or any other similar scenario, the entire thing falls apart at worst or severely limits image variety at best. The options are seemingly to either retag your entirely library or remove the defaults and play those scenarios with no images. Or just play vanilla.

Anyway - didn't mean to rail on Bonanza. It has many things I like but in the specific context of tagging, I feel that the vanilla design is far superior to my tastes.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2020, 05:44:56 am by asmox »
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Chris12

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Re: Tagging tool
« Reply #214 on: June 01, 2020, 10:22:01 am »

I'm working on an upgraded version of the tagging tool right now. I noticed that there's a new version out (I was still using 2.6). I tried 2.7, but it's behaving really strange. It seems that for some reason, main tags were switched around. (e.g. "cob" instead of "on-body"). Not only do I dislike this, it also not really working right now.

Is the "cob" thing intentional, or did something go wrong during the implementation? I don't understand what these changes are supposed to do. I thought about fixing this, but to be honest, why fix what ain't broken? I'm thinking about just taking 2.6, add the changes that do work from 2.7 (like WebP) and just ignore the changes to the tags.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2020, 10:29:46 am by Chris12 »
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Leortha

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Re: Tagging tool
« Reply #215 on: June 01, 2020, 03:11:06 pm »

Please, please wait for a reply from Goldo, or work back through the history of this thread.  All tag changes were done by him for specific reasons.
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Chris12

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Re: Tagging tool
« Reply #216 on: June 01, 2020, 07:26:50 pm »

Ooops.  ::) Too late...

I just posted a first version of the upgraded Tagging Tool. Well, if anyone wants to fix the 2.7 tags, I'll gladly include them with my patch. However, considering that these bugs have persisted for more than half a year now, I moderately doubt that will happen. This was a somewhat confusing mess in the code; switching back to the old tags was way easier...

I tried reading through this thread, but did not find anything beyond "Includes the revamped tag dictionary by DarkNoob's request".
« Last Edit: June 01, 2020, 07:31:09 pm by Chris12 »
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Goldo

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Re: Tagging tool
« Reply #217 on: June 02, 2020, 06:31:40 pm »

It was a long time ago, so I might be wrong, but as I recall I added a custom 'label' for optional tag buttons so I could make the tag name more explicit (for instance, the 'mast' tag is displayed in the tagging tool as 'masturbate'). This in-turn allowed me to use shortened tags like 'cob' to avoid overtly-long file names.

I'm surprised that it wouldn't work, though, I don't see why not. Let me know if you figure out what's wrong.
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Chris12

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Re: Tagging tool
« Reply #218 on: June 03, 2020, 06:50:55 am »

Thanks for clarifying. I had problems with cob, etc tags popping up and never going away. I'll try to figure out something; if you find the time, I'd also like to hear your thoughts about my 2.8 proposal, and some of the questions I have there. ('danc', 'XXX', ...) Thanks!
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Goldo

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Re: Tagging tool
« Reply #219 on: June 03, 2020, 09:08:21 am »

Thanks for clarifying. I had problems with cob, etc tags popping up and never going away. I'll try to figure out something; if you find the time, I'd also like to hear your thoughts about my 2.8 proposal, and some of the questions I have there. ('danc', 'XXX', ...) Thanks!

Sure, I'll take a look whenever I can
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Oboe

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Re: Tagging tool
« Reply #220 on: March 12, 2021, 11:13:41 pm »

Noticed that the tagger /almost/ works for linux. Just slashes to fix. So I did.

See attached script.rpy for linux compatible code.

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DougTheC

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Re: Tagging tool
« Reply #221 on: March 13, 2021, 02:24:17 am »

Noticed that the tagger /almost/ works for linux. Just slashes to fix. So I did.

See attached script.rpy for linux compatible code.

Good addition!
I ought to get an Ubuntu machine going one of these weeks...
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Oboe

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Re: Tagging tool
« Reply #222 on: March 13, 2021, 04:16:50 pm »

If you change one line..

if renpy.linux:

to

if renpy.linux or renpy.mac:

You can get the mac users as well.

Oboe.
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GH20

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Re: Tagging tool ("Lifted" tag idea)
« Reply #223 on: June 19, 2021, 06:16:03 pm »

(I'm not sure if this should go either here, or in the tagging tool thread, so i might post it on both)

Since you guys added Cunnilingus recently... there is one fixation i have noticed is notably common on fanarts, but it's surpringsilly absent on Brothel King and the Tagging Tool.

LIFTED POSITION (or any other name if there is a better one you know)
Where the partner is standing up, and the girl is being completelly lifted by their standing partner, or the girl is grabbing her arms and legs to her standing partner's back.

I'm quite surprised this wasn't a thing already, when i see this is way more common than spooning.

I feel this should be quite easy to implement, but i can see a few "troubles" like the lack of this tag (or any replacement for the matter) in previous packs, even when there are various pics that would fit the tagging.

While there any many other tags i feel could be added, but are not necesarry to bring up, THIS one is one i feel should be on the BK game/tagging tool.

(2 examples pics taken from google, to get exactly what i mean)

Quoting what i posted on "Gameplay and design discussion".

Regardless if this gets implemented into the game or not, i feel it would be good idea to come up with a provisional tag for it, since other games that use girl packs might use this as a fixation.
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