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Author Topic: Community dialogue project  (Read 9933 times)

_neronero

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Community dialogue project
« on: April 14, 2020, 12:54:45 pm »

Brothel King 0.2 introduces a new dialogue system that provides a very simple way for the community to contribute to the game. This is particularly interesting for people who have taken a look at creating their own events, but found that a bit too complicated in practice. It allows girl pack makers to customize the responses of their girl without any programming knowledge, by simply adding her lines to the girl pack. But before putting that effort into a single girl, I would like to draw everyone's attention to the 24 "default" personalities and how we could flesh those out.

[ BK dialogue Google Sheet ]

The new dialogue system allows for customized dialogue for each of these personalities (and more, if you would like to propose a custom personality that should be added to the base game) - Almost all of the dialogue for these personalities still needs to be written. So if there's a personality that you're particularly excited to see, feel free to chip in so that personality can really start showing its true colors in the game!


I've added a progress tracker to the first sheet, if you want to quickly check in on our progress.

Pervert - "Wild and 'no limit' kind of girl. Curious about all sorts of sexual acts, the more perverted the better. Doesn't care for romance."
Rebel - "Always fighting and contradicting others, fiercely independent. Must do things of her own free will."
Cold - "Cold and detached, she doesn't show her feelings easily. She seems strangely unconcerned about what goes on around her, and uninterested in the fate of others."
Nerd - "Quiet and bookish. Rather light-headed. Curious. Doesn't like physical effort."
Masochist - "The lower the better. She likes to be at the bottom and secretly enjoys being mistreated. Gifts and loving gestures annoy her, she doesn't deserve them."
Bimbo "Vain, attention-craved, cares about status and wealth. Loves presents and compliments. She has no qualms about using her body to get those things, too."
Meek - "Shy, easily swayed, will cry rather than resist. Doesn't like conflict."
Sweet - "Lovely and sunny personality. Always positive. Rather romantic. Doesn't like negativity."
Superficial - "Ever the socialite, cares about being seen, preferably in the most outstanding outfit and expensive jewelry. Some call her needy and craving for attention, but she knows they're just jealous of her new shoes..."
Holy - "A firebrand promoter of religion and morality, she prays every night for the salute of her soul and tries to convert others to her beliefs. With little success so far, but she won't give up."
Helper - "Always ready to help her friends, places herself after others. Can be a bit nosy sometimes."
Creep"Shy and awkward around people, she is obsessed about all sorts of dirty topics that she researches in her own time. Get complaints for stalking, a lot."
Repressed - "Raised in a very strict environment, she lives in fear of her own impulses and tries her hardest to suppress them."
Schemer - "Likes nothing more than to scheme and make grand plans, ready to assert her dominance over all living beings... Some day. In the meantime, if she has to suck a dick... So be it."
Prude - "Affects to be a good, Arios-fearing girl at all times. Frowns on frivolity and amoral behavior. Some think she has dirty thoughts in secret, but if so, she hides them well."
Princess - "A figurative princess (or is she?), she thinks everyone ought to be at her service and deliver on her every whim. Can be cruel, but mostly she is naive."
Pet - "The teacher's pet. Always ready to please her master, likes nothing more than to live in comfort at his feet. Some despise her lack of independence, calling her unpleasant names behind her back."
Easy - "It's not her fault, she has always attracted men, and never had the heart to turn them down. Although many call her easy, her sole purpose is to spread joy. Hopefully not STDs."
Class president - "Must always be on top, strives to be exemplary and despises every kind of misconduct. The high expectations she has of others mirror the harsh discipline she puts herself through."
Tsundere - "Easy to anger, hard to please, she has a secret soft spot. Will put herself at risk to help others, then kick their butts for needing help in the first place."
Loyal - "Always follows orders, out of a sense of duty more than fear. Thinks everyone must know their place, and do their best at whatever job they hold. Even whores."
Yandere - "Very high on the hot and neurotic scale. Loving and devoted, but also firebatshit crazy. Ready to do anything to get her man and snuff out the competition, including... actually snuffing them out."
Stubborn - "Doesn't like people who don't share her principles and moral values, and doesn't like contradiction either. She's a lot of fun at parties, if you like parties that end with a tavern brawl."
« Last Edit: January 11, 2021, 12:53:31 am by _neronero »
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_neronero

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Re: Community dialogue project
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2020, 12:54:52 pm »

(Reserved)
« Last Edit: April 15, 2020, 05:53:33 pm by _neronero »
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alpha_and_omega

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Re: Community dialogue project
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2020, 07:35:59 pm »

Hey _neronero,

Just to be sure on how add_dialogue is supposed to work:

add_dialogue( "The kind of interaction you click",
("One of the 24 types of girls"),
"The textbox displayed" or use ["abc" , "dfe"] if you want to display multiple pages of dialogue,
type and amount of love/fear reward for the interaction,
cap how far you can increase love with this interaction)

So the only part we need to modify ist the textbox and indicate for which type of girl it is?
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alpha_and_omega

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Re: Community dialogue project
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2020, 09:02:02 pm »

Sorry for double-post, but it merrits attention:

On this google sheet, everybody can participate (anonymosly if wanted) to create those 24 different dialogue options.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13h2OeU9k_XSc6Ppra-6jmUp8tjDcGUp5DA7DukyEg4U/edit?usp=sharing

It will help making all those different personalities come to life and nobody has to worry about how to code.

Just chose your favorite type(s) and write ahead :)
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Zane0

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Re: Community dialogue project
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2020, 10:18:20 pm »

you might want to append the underlying stat differences that correspond with each personality?
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alpha_and_omega

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Re: Community dialogue project
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2020, 10:56:03 pm »

Good idea, however I won’t be able to do so for the next 24h. So feel free to add a column for love gain/loss, or i’ll add it later.

Also, I might include a column for the text the MC says. This way it is easier to make the response fit the scene.

Any other ideas?
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_neronero

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Re: Community dialogue project
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2020, 11:38:02 pm »

Good plan with the google doc!

I'd like to also have a column for personality. Step 1 is writing all these lines while thinking about the primary personality. Step 2 will be adding extra personalities to the lines if they happen to work particularly well for other personalities too; this would add loads of variety to the dialogue and would keep you guessing a bit in the game. It also means that you don't have to force anything if you get stuck on a particular line and can't come up with anything.

I've got a first draft for free-girl "Pet" lines done. I'll start adding em to the sheet.

Hey _neronero,

Just to be sure on how add_dialogue is supposed to work:

add_dialogue( "The kind of interaction you click",
("One of the 24 types of girls"),
"The textbox displayed" or use ["abc" , "dfe"] if you want to display multiple pages of dialogue,
type and amount of love/fear reward for the interaction,
cap how far you can increase love with this interaction)

So the only part we need to modify ist the textbox and indicate for which type of girl it is?
Yep yep, just to clarify a few more things:

  • ("One of the 24 types of girls") --> This could also become multiple types of girls, e.g. ("meek", "nerd", "cold")
  • Different dialogue options:
    • Single line: "This is a girl speaking a single line."
    • Multiple lines: ["The narrator is talking.", "g: This is a girl speaking a line", "mc: This is the player speaking a line."] --> When using multiple lines, multiple=True must be in the code after the line
    • Alternative lines: ("The girl could say this in response.", "But the next time you interact with her she may say this", "Or she could say this.")
  • You can also add sound effects to a (single) line with this: sound=s_mmh Sound names are defined in BKsettings.rpy and the audio files are in game/sounds/
« Last Edit: April 15, 2020, 12:54:07 am by _neronero »
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_neronero

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Re: Community dialogue project
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2020, 05:08:07 pm »

I'd like to also have a column for personality.

(...)

("One of the 24 types of girls") --> This could also become multiple types of girls, e.g. ("meek", "nerd", "cold")

I'm going to start adding all the lines that are already in the game for the 8 original personalities to the google doc. To avoid duplicate lines in the google doc, I will only add them to the sheet of the first personality listed in these lines, listing the rest with a "personality" column.

alpha_and_omega

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Re: Community dialogue project
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2020, 05:33:46 pm »

Thx!

It takes time to prepare all the columns, but once its done, it will make creating new content easier and faster :)

@_neronero: Could you please insert the link to the Sheet at the beginning of your opening post? I fear some users might not see it as this thread gets longer.
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Goldo

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Re: Community dialogue project
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2020, 06:25:25 pm »

Hi guys,

Just to chip in, some features of the dialogue system that are already in there you might want to use:
- dialogue can have multiple lines (see exemples in BKdialogue.rpy), in which case you can use the prefix "g: " for girl dialogue and "mc: " for MC dialogue (no prefix = narrator). Don't forget the space after g: or mc: .
- a sound can be played during dialogue (see BKsettings.rpy for the handles of vanilla sounds)
- a line of dialogue can add love, mood or fear
- love gains can be capped (such as during free girl interactions) to avoid a girl falling madly in love with you if you just say 'Hi!' a hundred times. I may add the same for fear if there's a need.
- other features may be added over time, including by popular demand (but don't ask for dialogue that pops the girl's virginity or makes tentacles rain from the sky, let's keep it manageable)
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_neronero

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Re: Community dialogue project
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2020, 04:04:37 pm »

Posting this discussion that took place on the google doc here, it's worth discussing more broadly... I was applying a serious love penalties (-4,-3,-2,-1) to directly asking a "Schemer" girl about a sex act she despises/dislikes (She would percieve it as a way in which you manipulate her instead of the other way around)


Quote
those values are far below .015b Is it intentional to make flirting much more AP-consuming? Generic girl has +/-0 love
It will depend on the girl, I may have overdone it here a bit, but every girl can have her own weaknesses & pitfalls to discover. Schemer should be interested in manipulating you, not being manipulated (so she hates it if you bring up her own weakness)

Quote
The problem with -love is that you can (at the moment) only get a free girl if she has max love.
So unless there is another way to get free girls, negative love is REALLY detrimental. Especially since sexual preference is not directly linked to personality.
So -5 for a 1-time-action ok. Like lying about the job.
But for a repetitive flirt, -1 or just plain 0 should be punishment enough. Because you don't get anything and lose the APs.
That's exactly what 0.2 should bring... The meta-game of deducing what type of girl you're talking to will give you a massive edge. If you can tell "This girl is probably a Schemer" after the first 4 interactions, you can easily rush her into your brothel with 40% of the AP it would normally have taken in BK 0.15

Quote
I agree, but this "sex_flirt" depends on preference. So I get it for different jokes etc. Or many +0/+1 actions that don't fit. But talking about sex and the girl hating you? Maybe a holy might be angry. But still, -love is just double punishing. Especially since sex-topics are one of the only ways to go above 90 love. So if you get -love until she finally likes the act (phobia?) she will never go above 90 :(
I maintain that -1,-2,-3 love should have their place, especially when they're being compensated by +2, +3, +4 love in other places. If you've become familiar enough with a girl to ask about her sex life, but you haven't figured out her personality, what are you doing? Just blindly spamming AP and holding control? I know some of us have gotten used to that, but that doesn't mean it's something we should cling on to... There should certainly always be enough opportunities to get the girl. But they shouldn't always be the same.

Edit: Leaving anonymous feedback on the google doc is all good, by the way. I'm just curious to hear more opinions.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2020, 04:18:43 pm by _neronero »
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alpha_and_omega

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Re: Community dialogue project
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2020, 04:15:39 pm »

Posting this discussion that took place on the google doc here, it's worth discussing more broadly... I was applying a serious love penalties (-4,-3,-2,-1) to directly asking a "Schemer" girl about a sex act she despises/dislikes (She would percieve it as a way in which you manipulate her instead of the other way around)


Quote
those values are far below .015b Is it intentional to make flirting much more AP-consuming? Generic girl has +/-0 love
It will depend on the girl, I may have overdone it here a bit, but every girl can have her own weaknesses & pitfalls to discover. Schemer should be interested in manipulating you, not being manipulated (so she hates it if you bring up her own weakness)

Quote
The problem with -love is that you can (at the moment) only get a free girl if she has max love.
So unless there is another way to get free girls, negative love is REALLY detrimental. Especially since sexual preference is not directly linked to personality.
So -5 for a 1-time-action ok. Like lying about the job.
But for a repetitive flirt, -1 or just plain 0 should be punishment enough. Because you don't get anything and lose the APs.
That's exactly what 0.2 should bring... The meta-game of deducing what type of girl you're talking to will give you a massive edge. If you can tell "This girl is probably a Schemer" after the first 4 interactions, you can easily rush her into your brothel with 40% of the AP it would normally have taken in BK 0.15

Quote
I agree, but this "sex_flirt" depends on preference. So I get it for different jokes etc. Or many +0/+1 actions that don't fit. But talking about sex and the girl hating you? Maybe a holy might be angry. But still, -love is just double punishing.
I maintain that -1,-2,-3 love should have their place, especially when they're being compensated by +2, +3, +4 love in other places. If you've become familiar enough with a girl to ask about her sex life, but you haven't figured out her personality, what are you doing? Just blindly spamming AP and holding control? I know some of us have gotten used to that, but that doesn't mean it's something we should cling on to...

I totally agree on personalities and different impacts.
Jokes and compliments make a perfect example.
A masochist could get +4 from a mean joke and -2 from a cute joke.
A holy girl would get the exact opposite.

That is fine for all conversations that have "real" options.

Sex-topics are however not related to the topic, but to the preference. So unless I am sure that a masochist will always be facinated by fetish, I can't know my result from sex-flirting based on her personality. I admit to not having looked into the code.
But low libido = refusal...

So unless we also link the rewards based on the reaction (-4 from refusal until +4 from fascinated) AND the topic (+3 from chosing fetish for a masochist), we are at a point where it might get impossible to raise a girl's love above 90.
This way a masochist will on everage get more love from fetish. And a holy gets more from bisexual (no unholy men required).
And the Schemer that started the discussion gets a bonus from group (+5) because she will influence more people. And she likes service - because her discription says "In the meantime, if she has to suck a dick... So be it."


Edit:

Maybe the easiest (and most overall balanced) approach would be to have the previous numbers from 0.15 as the base-modifier.
And just say for each type, whether her type has a specific bonus to the result.

all Jokes = +2 love

masochist:
cute = -2 ; adult = -1 ; dark = 0 ; mean = +2

So she will get
cute joke = (+2 -2) = 0
adult joke = (+2 -1) = +1
dark joke = (+2 +0) = +2
mean joke = (+2 +2) = +4

This way one can easily say how her personality influences the result. The masochist does not like cute jokes. But telling a joke will not make her hate you. Just not fall in love.
If you find out her weakness, you save 50% of AP compared to generic girls from 0.15b.

And caps could be influenced the same way.
Mean cap = +10 => overall cap = 50 +10 = 60
Cute cap = -10 => overall cap = 50 -10 = 40
« Last Edit: April 16, 2020, 04:34:54 pm by alpha_and_omega »
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_neronero

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Re: Community dialogue project
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2020, 04:39:10 pm »

So a schemer girl will get up to +8 love for recieving a gift of gold, that + gifts would be the easiest way to get her into your brothel.

I would prefer to liberally adjust caps of different things to compensate for all the introverted/repressed girls that dislike talking about and/or performing sex acts. I'm thinking a Schemer could have no love-cap on gossiping, for example.

Also, for certain types of girls it should be logical that they're extremely hard to get. Plenty of girls would be hesitant about working in a brothel if they have 0 experience + low libido, right? Getting a repressed girl with 0 experience into your brothel should be a massive challenge! And 0.2 gives us the tools to let every piece of dialogue scream "Stop wasting your AP!!" for every wrong interaction on those kinds of girls.

alpha_and_omega

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Re: Community dialogue project
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2020, 05:01:26 pm »

You will get every kind of girl to 90. And then hit a (potentially VERY) hard ceiling. Than not only doesn't let you pass, but pushes you down.
So the risk of wasting 7 ingame weeks early game to just find out that things can't go forward... well that's a pain in the ***

And "stop wasting AP on this action! There is something else that you should do..." is very different from "Hahahaha, you have done all this for nothing. Because she really loved your jokes. But you won't have her. Loser."

And a low-level girl should be able to join. She should even be easier to get than the 100 beauty, 100 libido girl that could just get any sugar-daddy and doesn't need the brothel-job  ;)
As a consequence, you need to put effort into her.

That is my vision of gameplay
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_neronero

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Re: Community dialogue project
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2020, 05:32:28 pm »

You will get every kind of girl to 90. And then hit a (potentially VERY) hard ceiling. Than not only doesn't let you pass, but pushes you down.
So the risk of wasting 7 ingame weeks early game to just find out that things can't go forward... well that's a pain in the ***
I don't see why you could only get to 90. We can change the caps on every type of interaction.

And a low-level girl should be able to join. She should even be easier to get than the 100 beauty, 100 libido girl that could just get any sugar-daddy and doesn't need the brothel-job  ;)
As a consequence, you need to put effort into her.
An open-minded low level girl, yes. Those kinds of girls will enjoy talking about it and experimenting with it, even if they are reluctant about the sex acts. A low level repressed girl with zero libido? I don't think so.

A 100 beauty, 100 libido girl is much more likely to see the benefits of your proposition. She knows she loves having sex and she knows that men would pay out the nose to be with her. So if you want to lure such a girl to your brothel, it makes sense to emphasize the sex and talk about it a lot.
A 0 beauty, 0 libido girl has no interest in sex, and she is unwanted and unloved, her tips would be absolutely abysmal. The actual reason she would be lured into the brothel would most likely be because she has an innate sexually curiosity tied to her personality. Otherwise, it will be because she naively thinks she will just be a waitress at your establishment and will not take part in sex acts (= chatting her up with different topics)

edit: an interesting topic will be how to balance these differences once they are in your brothel. I would be more open to homogenizing the differences a bit at that point, unless we have another way to give these repressed girls their own powerful strengths/niches.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2020, 05:37:17 pm by _neronero »
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